tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6234638383123311700.post7628108833962111044..comments2023-10-31T11:27:58.514-05:00Comments on THE SATURDAY AFTERNOON POST: THE UNTIED STATES OF AMERICAJack Jodellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02165430903903838990noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6234638383123311700.post-72071310104432151712010-07-12T14:38:25.701-05:002010-07-12T14:38:25.701-05:00Jack, as usual, I learn and grow when I visit you ...Jack, as usual, I learn and grow when I visit you and I spend... a lot of time. <br /><br />I also can somewhat align to BB's commentary via the south... here in FL it's just as , ah, dumbed down population wise... even with all these transplants. Wanna be $. or just bubba dumb. I may have grown up based in south FL but my education and many years I lived in northeast. I had to come home to hear that there is nothing dumber than a NY democrat. :-) a smile? I love FL. My neighbors are really pretty liberal ... around me. We did turn it blue in the last major election... I have hope still.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16419040049480437384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6234638383123311700.post-14499352447661567892010-07-10T13:54:50.382-05:002010-07-10T13:54:50.382-05:00Mr. Jodell,
I visit your site often, and comment...Mr. Jodell, <br /><br />I visit your site often, and comment rarely. The reason I fail to comment most of the time is because I often find you too dogmatic to agree with and too well-informed to debate. However, we have one thing in common. We are both proud liberals. <br /><br />I just wanted to acknowledge this article, because it is so well done. I found myself cutting and pasting many sections for my "personal catalogue of tidbits."<br /><br />Very well done.<br /><br />Sincerely, <br />JJohn Mystehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16263634313238599515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6234638383123311700.post-75907137009717049222010-07-06T01:01:43.791-05:002010-07-06T01:01:43.791-05:00Sadly, I think just basic stupidity has an awful l...Sadly, I think just basic stupidity has an awful lot to do with our current divisions.<br /><br />I just had a commenter on my site who said that John Kerry, claiming to have "won all those medals in Vietnam" was "proven to be a fraud" and then the American people "re-elected President Bush."<br /><br />I cut and pasted a section of a Wikipedia bio that detailed Kerry's actions that resulted in 3 Purple Hearts, a Silver Star and a Bronze Star. Did it just for the record, and because it was easy to do. People like that are too stupid to reason with, and they are legion.Manifesto Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06521151220297061304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6234638383123311700.post-20954622146670296732010-07-05T12:12:48.347-05:002010-07-05T12:12:48.347-05:00Thanks Jack.Thanks Jack.TomCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11397335545286040472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6234638383123311700.post-20567752227055698492010-07-05T10:18:23.179-05:002010-07-05T10:18:23.179-05:00Thanks, jadedj. I'm just hoping that eventuall...Thanks, jadedj. I'm just hoping that eventually the far right will start to head more toward the center, because they're waaaayyyyy out of whack right now!<br />---------------<br />Marc,<br />Thank you. I think we on the left tend to take those on the far right at their word way too often. We need to remember that anyone not 100% in total agreement with them is an extremist, a terrorist, a communist, or worse. These reactionaries have no credibility whatsoever and are so full of irrational hatred and rage that I expect to eventually see them turn on each other. They are, I believe, a painful and wholly unnecessary anamoly of our history, incapable of leadership or governance.Jack Jodellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02165430903903838990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6234638383123311700.post-16116138245084964362010-07-05T01:42:44.524-05:002010-07-05T01:42:44.524-05:00Great, well-written piece, Jack. Lots of good poin...Great, well-written piece, Jack. Lots of good points.<br />Maybe I'm just a pessimist. But I'm convinced that the polarization of our country is just going to continue to get worse.<br />Each new crop of HateWing radio talkers tries to out-do the previous generation by being even more extreme.<br />HateWing radio, as well as the Far-Right Web, Wingnut blogs and Fox News just continue to get more and more extreme.<br />Maybe I'm biased, but I simply don't see a Left-Wing equivalent to all this. I know the likes of DailyKOS are regularly attacked as "extremist" by the Right, but frankly, sites like that seem pretty mainstream to me, outside of maybe the occasional anonymous commenter (and keep in mind, anyone, including right-wing mischief-makers, can make extremist comments).<br />I am fearful that we are headed toward another 1960s-like round of political violence against Democratic leaders.Marc McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17105754072842852126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6234638383123311700.post-74144499949754665582010-07-04T18:45:48.062-05:002010-07-04T18:45:48.062-05:00This is the most right-on 4th of July post EVER. W...This is the most right-on 4th of July post EVER. With the exception of regional profiling, which is pointed out by Infidel753, this came directly from my brain, and what I have been thinking for some time. Excellent!jadedjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16569736113526368917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6234638383123311700.post-91746032642720133432010-07-04T08:33:46.927-05:002010-07-04T08:33:46.927-05:00mud_rake,
I'm with you on that one, and they c...mud_rake,<br />I'm with you on that one, and they can't go soon enough or far enough away to suit me!Jack Jodellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02165430903903838990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6234638383123311700.post-90485299103182121712010-07-04T07:59:13.670-05:002010-07-04T07:59:13.670-05:00Jack writes, Think about the religious right, its...Jack writes, <i> Think about the religious right, its influence on the modern Republican Party, and its rigid, doctrinaire stances on the role of our government and the types of officials they think we should elect.</i><br /><br />In a lily-white suburb of Toledo yesterday there was a gathering of the Tea Party crowd- all 160 of them- and the rally opened with a 5-minute long prayer followed by government-bashing speeches.<br /><br />I think that this knot of dullards ought to find an island somewhere in the Pacific and take it over so that it could establish their Theocratic homeland.<br /><br />I'd help finance their journey!mud_rakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04786611698569598023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6234638383123311700.post-16496432629322715132010-07-03T17:01:55.350-05:002010-07-03T17:01:55.350-05:00Wonderful comment, TomCat. VERY well put, and tota...Wonderful comment, TomCat. VERY well put, and totally true!Jack Jodellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02165430903903838990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6234638383123311700.post-27048940791932407402010-07-03T14:24:14.898-05:002010-07-03T14:24:14.898-05:00The demise of a loyal opposition has only occurred...The demise of a loyal opposition has only occurred during the Obama administration. Most of Bush's policies/appointees were adopted/confirmed with bipartisan support. It became frayed in his second term as more and more evidence came to light that the GOP was illegally using the organs of government to establish permanent control, a goal that may well have achieved had not their ambition been overtaken by incompetence and greed. Thwarted in 2008, the K Street project dead, the economy collapsing, the GOP has resorted to all the tactics you listed in a desperation move to regain power and establish the permanent regime they barely missed.<br /><br />The danger that they succeed is still quite real, because corporations have been given all the rights of individuals with none of the responsibilities, and money has been equated with speech.<br /><br />Wonderful piece, Jack.TomCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11397335545286040472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6234638383123311700.post-74914571489197661502010-07-01T23:10:50.719-05:002010-07-01T23:10:50.719-05:00There go those nasty Republicans, picking on Presi...There go those nasty Republicans, picking on President Cleveland again! :-)<br />Great knowledge of historical trivia, Will!Jack Jodellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02165430903903838990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6234638383123311700.post-17863346796097355762010-07-01T17:26:16.726-05:002010-07-01T17:26:16.726-05:00"Ma ma, where's my pa? He's gone to t..."Ma ma, where's my pa? He's gone to the White House, ha ha ha."Will "take no prisoners" Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02315659209094683602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6234638383123311700.post-21884914140109907112010-07-01T07:57:08.931-05:002010-07-01T07:57:08.931-05:00Tim,
Thanks for that reminder. FDR was the target ...Tim,<br />Thanks for that reminder. FDR was the target of a lot of nasty lying as well, and so was Truman.Jack Jodellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02165430903903838990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6234638383123311700.post-74087275526985336272010-07-01T07:52:57.239-05:002010-07-01T07:52:57.239-05:00Thank you, Lisa G. Ithink I agree with you on Ford...Thank you, Lisa G. Ithink I agree with you on Ford. But if you look at the 1960 JFK-Nixon debates, and even a number of public political pronouncements from the late '50s to mid '60s, you'll see a much more genteel tone being presented (except by the segregationists). I must admit that the antiwar protestors of the Vietnam era weren't always so polite, but they were being brazenly lied to by LBJ and Nixon. Ford conducted himself nicely, as did Barry Goldwater. But once we got into the Nixon/Agnew, Lee Atwater, Karl Rove style of politics, that's where things got really nasty and have increased to this day.Had the right really learned from the excessess of the 1950 Joe McCarthy era, we wouldn't have mouthy lying teabaggers and Rove-types today. Hell, we wouldn't even have Fox "News". But the far right will always be a snide, cynical, and paranoid lot with sharp tongues and rash insinuations, and until they curb their excesses we'll have the uncivil discourse we're plagued with now.<br />---------------<br />Beach,<br />There are most definitely nasty excesses on both ends of the political extreme. Those from the right, though, tend to be more personal and nastier than much of what comes from the left. I like your primitive from the Amazon analogy. There is definitely a kernel of truth in that.<br /><br />You are a bright beacon surrounded by a sea of darness in SC, Beach. You are always welcome on this page. :-)<br />---------------<br />Infidel753,<br />You have a number of valid points here, and I hope you're right that the internet will help erode some of the sharp divisions we have. I didn't mean to convey that our current divisions are particularly geographical, though, although you must admit that some of the opinions arising from parts of the deep South show a tremendous disconnect from the rest of the country, especially Washington and the northeast. But, for that matter, Washington itself is pretty disconnected. We conscientious Americans have our work cut out for us, don't we? :-)Jack Jodellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02165430903903838990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6234638383123311700.post-23194433591486681542010-07-01T07:44:54.320-05:002010-07-01T07:44:54.320-05:00I was about to say that it's not a regional di...I was about to say that it's not a regional divide as much as it's an urban-rural divide, but Infidel beat me to it. Well done, sir!<br /><br />@Lisa: Politics has always been a full-contact sport. Cleveland vs. Blaine back in the 19th century was especially nasty. The 2008 campaign was almost gentlemanly by comparison.Tim McGahahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10344033690443344729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6234638383123311700.post-48720726312574679492010-07-01T06:44:06.478-05:002010-07-01T06:44:06.478-05:00I agree with you that much of the country is separ...I agree with you that much of the country is separated into mutually uncomprehending and hostile camps (though I think there are a lot of uncommitted people who don't belong to any of those camps), but I would disagree that the division is particularly a geographical one.<br /><br />You can find both liberals and conservatives (or, to cite the division that more concerns me, both seculars and theocrats) in every part of the country, even if the ratio is different in different regions. Quite a lot of the liberals and unconventional thinkers I've known have lived in Georgia, Texas, and especially Florida. My own state of Oregon is pretty blue, but there were enough bigots here to abolish gay marriage in a state-wide referendum several years ago (as in California in 2008).<br /><br />A Texan friend once told me that if everyone in Texas who was eligible to vote actually voted, it would be a blue state (the black and Hispanic populations there are huge, for one thing). The right-wing know-nothing image reflects a minority that dominates politics because of apathy among others.<br /><br />We've always had a religious-fundamentalist minority subculture in the US which existed largely in isolation from reality and the mainstream culture, but it didn't participate in politics much until the late 1970s. Since then it's transformed the Republican party, but it was always there. Yes, it's concentrated in the South, but not exclusively Southern.<br /><br />If anything I hope that these mutually-uncomprehending camps will erode more in the near future. The internet makes it somewhat harder to avoid information from outside the bubble.Infidel753http://infidel753.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6234638383123311700.post-52686039270596816432010-06-30T22:59:57.239-05:002010-06-30T22:59:57.239-05:00I have tried to downplay the Red state/Blue state ...I have tried to downplay the Red state/Blue state divide and convince myself that when you burned away the political nonsense some shade of purple would appear. But I just don't see it and you are perfectly right Jack, I will go as far and say the United States does not really exist anymore, that only a zombie-like inertia keeps the fifty states together.<br /><br />Understand I was raised in the South but I very often look upon other Southerners like I might a primitive tribesman from deep in the Amazon. I have next to nothing in common with that person and cannot imagine how that person came to their point of view on the world.<br /><br />Playing devil's advocate here now but in some cases I do feel this political and cultural disconnect goes both ways and that extremists on both sides willfully aggravate the situation. (PETA comes to mind as a quick example.) For the sake of brevity I will stop my comment here.Commander Zaiushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11000824454124236774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6234638383123311700.post-91433832652608818552010-06-30T20:05:13.640-05:002010-06-30T20:05:13.640-05:00Maybe I'm showing my age, but I don't reme...Maybe I'm showing my age, but I don't remember when politics were civil (I was in college when Reagan was elected). I think the last decent Republican president we had was Ford. I don't think this is what the Founding Fathers had in mind AT ALL and they are spinning in their graves as to what we have done to this country. The "me first" aspect that permeates the right is disgusting and abhorrent, yet people still elect these assholes.<br /><br />Excellent piece Jack - this is one of your best posts.Lisa G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02909155560510148815noreply@blogger.com